Now nurses are obssessed with being 'nurse-practitioners' and looking for a high powered career path they don't want to 'demean' themselves by doing something as trivial as basic hygiene and caring for patients these days, do they?
Surely nursing needs to get back to basics, which is that its a caring profession and its role is to look after the welfare of patients not to provide these nurses with doctors to marry and a career path that involves pretending to be a doctor?
I have viewed the work of these 'tireless angels' and to be honest most of them are lazy and spend most of their time slumped over the nurses station gossiping while contractors who appear not to know how to use a mop drift around the wards. "H" - being asked to:-
wash and make the beds for 28 patients
give out the drugs
assist people to the toilet
complete paper work
change dressings
help people to eat
answer the phone to relatives
discuss patient care with doctors
That is called 'their job'!!!
I don't doubt there are good ones but fact is a large proportion of nurses are completely hard faced. Half an hour overtime? Give me a break.....loads of people regularly work over their break times and don't moan and whinge about it. I regularly work hours of overtime each week. Yes, and well done for saying it, because you will get a backlash from those without experience, or something to hide. Moreover, the problem you highlight is largely brought about by the fact that training is now undertaken by Universities. That was guaranteed to introduce more theory and social engineering into the training, undermine management etc. When training was undertaken by the medical profession, the training was more hands on and practical, and attracted the right sort of people. This lefty Government, of course, despises Professions that train their own members, oversee training, and set standards of professional behaviour. Similar things happened with the Accountancy profession in relation to Auditing. Why, because they want to control everything, even though they make a complete ar-e of it.
My argument isn't just based on anecdotal evidence, it is underpinned by experience with my wife's treatment (died of cancer) and my father in law, together with other friends and the odd relative. PS I know that I am speaking generally, and I don't think that the nurses can always be blamed. It is the current day culture and training that's mainly at fault. pI've just come out of hospital. It was spotlessly clean. It's never been up to nurses to mop floors, etc. There have always been cleaners to do that.
Nurses nurse - look after their patients.
But there should be someone in charge who should be held accountable for the state of the wards. And everyone connected to medical practice should speak proper English, in easily understood accents. This was my main bugbear. As with every other profession you will find some have a lack of enthusiasm and work ethics while others tirelessly slave away. You can't say all nurses or most nurses are like this, the NHS has a severe lack of funds and I have faith that the majority of nurses are doing all they can with the little resources they have Not a popular opinion, but to a large extent I think its true. Taking care of a patient's wellfare means doing whatever needs doing to keep that patient as healthy and as happy as possible in the circumstances. There are a lot of excellent nurses out there, but unfortunately its a long long way from being all of them. Possibly, but if potential nurses knew that being a floor cleaner was part of the job description we might have even fewer nurses. no dear, it isn't, it's down to them being overworked, underapid, their Matron being gone who would otherwise have insisted on cleanliness, and not enough money to pay decent cleaners to use decent germ killing products, thanks Tony B!! If you think you can do better then please join the profession. Once you have washed and made the beds for 28 patients, given out the drugs, assisted people to the toilet, skipped your break so that you can complete your paper work, changed several dressings, been abused by a visitor, helped people to eat, answered the phone to several distressed relatives, discussed patient care with doctors and then realised that once more you are half an hour late finishing work I am sure you will clean the ward..........
Try hurling your poorly constructed abuse at the managers who choose to employ cheep contractors and force nurses to complete useless pieces of paper instead of allowing them to do their work properly. It's not a nurses job to clean the hospital. The public think waiting times are long now, how do you think they will be if nurses had to start bringing mops to work. The solution is simple, the NHS should stop employing thousands of face less 'managers' on a hundred grand a year and employ more cleaners. You don't need a manager(s) to ensure a hospital remains clean, bring back the old Matron system, that's what I say.
edit: I'll let the missus answer this when she gets back from her 12 hour shift as an A&E nurse (she'll love you) Possibly, but in the last 40 years the roles of nurses have changed. It used to be a nurses job to clean as well as care, but then they brought in private cleaners etc. Bring back the big scary Matron, that's what I think. I can't imagine Hattie Jacques in "Carry On Doctor" putiing up with MRSA in HER ward! no its more to do with the fact that the more we clean the more we expose ourselves to "Superbugs" as germs mutate to resist the disinfectants we use.
Its catch 22, we have to keep things clean but by creating ever stronger disinfectants we are inadvertantly creating stronger Superbugs.
And whats the point in training somebody for three years to deal with all kind of medical problems and situations just so they can mop a floor. Hardly worth training a nurse (however much that costs) and pay them 拢19,000 a yr when they qualify, just so they can mop the floor and wipe the side? l think nurses have enough to do, without having to clean too, if there was enough doctors they wouldnt have to take the role of the doctor, they could then do what they do best and look after us. Nurses USED to clean as well... but in those days you had strict Matrons who kept wards and hospitals so clean you could eat of the floors!
The trouble is these days is evey council, health authority etc want to spend as little as possible.
In my experience if you cut back too much something has gotta give, nowadays its hygene. Hospitals are now full of contracted cleaners who are usually refugee types (no offence meant) who are working for the minimum wage but don't really know what they're doing. I've seen on many many occasions where the cleaners just walk the corridor pushing a broom but not actually making sure they sweep properly. as for mopping its a quick zig zag of the mop and thats done!
If hospitals don't start keeping on top of the cleaning, many more people will be dying from infections picked up in hospitals, when they only went in to have a small op' or even just visiting!
ALL staff should be able and made to clean if needed, I too have seen the nurses that stand eating biscuits around the nurses station gossiping about the night before and who they got off with etc.... why not use that time to not only spend with patients but also give the tables a wipe etc. It is very simple, like everything else under labour they have brought morale to an all time low.
Senior management and consultants are under pressure to reduce costs left right and centre this pressure is passed onto jnr doctors who are already underpressure because a lot of their friends don't have jobs any more(in the hospital I work in only 2 out of 112 junior doctors got jobs) this is obviously brought out when speaking to nurses who have to put on a brave face for the patient....alot of people are now thinking 'is this worth the hassle?' this is where the problem comes from. Also Working in A&E I hve seen people come in drunk and are sick on the floor, because of the low morale everyone has become more jobsworth. And only the nurses can clean up the mess, so until someone gets around to doing it(which is usually within 10 minutes) then bugs are being transfered throughout the hospital. That's a bit harsh. Don't judge them all by the small percentage that you have had experience with. Many nurses are incredibly hard working and their main priority is the welfare of their patients. I am sure you have just stumbled across the minority. "Tireless Angels" is exactly what they are! Having spent some time in hospital recently, I am amazed at the patience these people exhibit. They are overworked, constantly harassed by obnoxious patients and visitors alike, and yet you still expect them to pull on a pair of marigolds and scrub the floor?!
I never saw them "slumped over the nurses station gossiping", and the nursing auxiliaries work just as hard; however, the cleaning staff were pitiful. Listlessly pushing a broom or mop around, half the time they didn't even move the beds or chairs to clean underneath them. If I had my curtains closed, they didn't bother cleaning in my bay; they didn't ask if they could come back later and do it.
As always though, you get what you pay for. Maybe if the wages were a bit better, you'd get a better calibre of staff. You're right to point to the reforms which created these 'nurse-practitioners', among other things, for the malaise of the NHS. But that's not the whole story. Like any other profession, there are slackers and duffers, and many graduate nurses today seem to have lost any sense of vocation. But nursing and doctoring these days have moved on and the 'basics' are no longer starched aprons and hot cocoa. However, the root of the problems of the NHS is this govt's approach to running anything. New Labour is an administration that believes in running things by fiat - send out an edict, sign a few cheques, move the deck-chairs a bit, and presto, sit back and wait for results. Hence, all these meaningless targets concocted by some management consultants, money spent on useless tinkering, and endless reforms that lead nowhere.
The case of hospital hygiene is a good example. It was pointed out by those on the front-lines that privatising such things as cleaning would not save money in the long run, or lead to better hygiene. These words fell on deaf ears, and many hospitals were ordered to privatise it. We know the results, and many hospitals have now brought cleaning back under internal control. As for nursing reforms, a few teams went to the US and thought graduate nurses and practitioners were the magic wand, and the decree went out. Why we keep thinking that the most wasteful and profligate nation in the world should provide us with the best models for change is a mystery. There are perfectly good models if we looked across the English Channel, but, of course, these contenentals cannot teach us anything!
Then there is the denial and self-delusion and spin that prevents remedial action being taken quickly. Ms Smary (Cannot)Hew-it has always used the ploy that any recent surveys or research that exposes failings in the NHS is ALWAYS out-of-date (OOD). That's the ploy every minister is told to use. Soldiers not getting treatment until 6hrs later? That's out-of-date data. They are now seen in 1 hour! MTAS is a mess? That's OOD.
Many of our health professionals are working very hard despite the obstacles constantly put in their path. Blame some if you like, but don't blame all of them. 1) Why shouldnt nurses try to better themselves.
2) Nurses dont pretend to be Doctors, they do fulfil that role in many areas of their professional lives
3) Nurses are not paid to clean hospital wards. Cleaners are employed for that job.
4) Nurses dont have the time to clean. Patient interaction and good quality nursing care is more beneficial, than trying to fight a hospital bug that cant be fought with modern medicine
5) 拢70 million is spent per year on cars for managers. Perhaps this money could be more wisely invested in cleaning contracts so that the wards can be kept clean by the appropiate people. Therefore nurses could get on with the jobs that they have spent three years in college, training to do. My son is in and out of hospital regularly and I must say our local hospital is generally very clean and the nurses are far from lazy.
I think the problem is that the nurses are overworked and underpaid - one of the nurses caring for my son had been at work for 17 hours - now how can she be expected to care for ill children for 17 hours and clean the ward?
The hospitals in this country need cleaning contractors that actually care about the job in hand, not some woman who comes in to earn a few quid by pushing along a broom. Also it needs patients with a little bit of respect for their surroundings - that would certainly make the job easier. With the exception of a few outstanding exceptions you are so so right.
I have unfortunately spent eight weeks in Hospital over the last 6 months and experienced your comments first hand.
I have had to lay in my own blood and vomit whilst so called Angels were yapping and laughing about what they did at the weekend.
I have laid awake most nights as a result of the noise they made chatting laughing etc etc......
I have been on the end of comments such as "You are not the only patient in here you know" this was the response to my asking when someone was going to remove my blood stained sheets, take away my sick bowl, I was unable to do these things for myself
I was made to feel guilty for requesting the smallest of things and it seemed to me that the priority was not the patients welfare but the nurses.
If it were not for my partner and family/friends etc my time spent in there would have been totally intolerable.
As it was it was very very unpleasant.
Total RESPECT to all the hard working and dedicated Nurses out here, and a big thanks for all you do.
But some of you..well....you need to have a real big think about doing something else.. here here.. I work in an NHS hospital and disagree totally with your comments. Yes, you do get the occasional nurse who likes everyone else to do their work for them, but the rest of us are hard working. Caring for the patients, relatives, paperwork (which has accumulated in the past 10 years since I qualified as a nurse).
Unfortunately, the NHS is a sitting target for people to take a 'pot shot' at.....we are not there looking for a doctor to marry or to become a doctor, I am happy working on a ward and not looking to become one of the 'new' nurse-practitioners. If I had wanted to be a doctor, I would have done the extensive training for that instead of the 3 years of hard slog to become a nurse.
I hate the fact that the odd one or two nurses set up a bad reputation for all of us within the profession! Whatever job it is you do, do you all get the tarred with the same brush if someone makes a mistake????
Also, our hospital is spotlessly clean. Any spills from body fluids, or even patients jugs of water which are spilt are cleaned up by us nurses, we don't stand around waiting for the cleaner to come and do it for us! We wouldn't do that in our own homes so no reason for us to leave it when at work.
I am so cross at your patronizing tone about the NHS and nurses in general. Yes the profession has come into the news yet again, but if the managers were cut to half, or sent to work on the wards for a month as part of their contracts, then maybe they would see what it is really like, rather than making new rules and regulations that we have to follow.
Sorry for the rant but this is another dig at our profession, I wonder would you refuse treatment under the NHS if desperately needed, I don't think so!!! its not a nurses job to clean the ward do you think it would be wise to be mopping under a bed one minute the next minute dressing a patients wounds there is a domestic company that are paid million upon milions of pounds to look after the cleanliness of the hospitals
the only cleaning a nurse is required to do is if it bodily fluids as the domestic cleaners have not had the right needles to protect them from infections also the general 'tidying' of a patients area is often the job of nurses but as for day to day cleaning that is the contractors staffs job
i also think it is rude to say that nurses are lazy i work as a nurse and my general shift pattern is two days of long days (6.45am until 9.15pm) and one day of earlys (6.45am-315pm)
so to be called lazy is really offensive especially with two small children to look after too Most of the cleanliness problems were created way back in the Tory days when they systematically underfunded the NHS and the clening services were outsourced to companies who were more interested in profit than cleanliness.
The majority of the extra money being put into the service by Labour is squandered on ever increasing levels of management and on consultants telling them they need more management, the poor bloomin nurses at the end of it, as usual, get the stick... In the 'old days' there were visiting hours in every hospital. You could only come in to visit patients during these slots. Nowdays you can turn up anytime and stay as long as you want. Hospitals have restaurants too, which makes it even easier for friends or relatives to stay for hours and 'entertain' the patients. I think restricting visiting hours to a couple of hours during the morning and a couple of hours during the evening could help keep hospitals clean. Also, in the 'old days' whenever you entered a hospital it reeked of bleach, nowdays it reeks of sweat and other stenches. Bleach has a clean smell to it even if it is not pleasant. I think it is due to contracted cleaners and the foreign staff these contractors hire. I don't believe the staff have western ideas relating to cleaning and hygiene. They go more for a 'spit and polish' approach. If they let the place be a little dirtier, you would have more chance of killing off the superbugs as they thrive in a clean environment.
Nurses love their paperwork I agree, domestic staff love their mop too and use the same one for many dirty floors before sterelizing it.
Nurses are rightly being given an enhanced role, their problem is not making sure their juniors are picking up the duties that they have got promotion out of. Okay, so having established that nurses aren't paid to clean any more, surely they can tell the aimless cleaners to clean their ward properly! Or has nobody got any bottle? if they don't clean, then who does?? | 