Are nurses too controlled by medical professionals, ie Doctors?

I am required to do a debate at uni regarding the control of health care by the medical profession.

My argument is that nurses are not too controlled by doctors/medical professionals because;

*The introduction & growth of nurse practitioners.
* Holistic nursing approach- focusing on the 'whole' person rather than just the problem & using different methods of care/treatment (Not always involving a doctor/medical professional)
*Independant midwives practicing solo or in collabrative care with doctors.

What are your views on my arguments??? Do they make a good argument or is there other points that I could use?

Thanks

I have worked in a hospital environment in various capacities for 14 years (I did a 2-year after-degree RN program and still work as an RN in a hospital setting).

As a nurse, I have a particular role. In large part, my role is to carry out treatments based on physicians' "orders." Mine is *not* to diagnose -- I have neither the education nor the clinical experience to diagnose medical conditions. I don't feel controlled by the physicians because of this though ...

Nurses and MDs have different skillsets and different scopes of practice. If someone wants an IV started, for example, the best person for the task (aside from an anesthesiologist) is an RN who has started thousands of them; however, just because I can perform certain tasks does not make me a clinician. The best person to diagnose a medical condition is someone who has had years of training and clinical experience (i.e. a physician, not a nurse). Physicians are trained to identify and treat the disease (and of course, care for patients).

( Nurses fall into danger when they try to assume the role of a "diagnostician." We are not trained to diagnose! )

Physicians can diagnose and treat (or order treatments) because of their knowledge base and clinical experience which begins in med school, becomes more polished through practice (residencies, then (sometimes) fellowships), and is truly refined after having gained the clinical experience and advanced knowledge of medicine *far* beyond that of a nurse ... I am completely comfortable in that knowledge.

My role as a nurse in an ICU environment is to ensure physicians' orders are carried out safely and with precision to the patients I help care for.

I can speak only for myself. I thoroughly enjoy working as a "bedside nurse." I have a great deal of respect for the neurologists, neurosurgeons and intensivists with whom I work ... but I don't feel "controlled" by them in the slightest.

Don't forget P.A.'s!!! And yes I agree with your take.

they should be controlled better by doctors because alot of them think they are know it alls and they are not they have only small learing compared to a doctor and they are most of the time not right. sometimes it is hard to talk to them especially an RN they are so obnoxious that you can't . the doctors should know this and watch them closely caus ethey give out the wrong messages sometimes. they are horrible i know i have sister as one.

Yeah, they're good arguements. When I was working on a ward we did have to wait around for doctors for ages so that s/he could prescribe something. That's because nursing practitioners aren't very common yet.
When there's a doctor on the ward we do pretty much have to follow what s/he wants, which can be annoying, but at the end of the day its the nurses that run the ward and look after the patients.

Doctors and nurses need to work as a team. Doctors need to show nurses respect for what they know, and what they pick up on. Nurses are in close contact with the patients and their families, they get told things through trust and can gain valuable information to assist in patient treatment. Nurses need to remember that at the end of the day they are the nurse and the doctor is the doctor.

I would have to agree with your second point, examining the holistic approach taken by nurses. While doctors deal more so with the actual illness and often avoid too much personal interaction with patients, nurses seem to actually understand and interact with the patient to a much higher degree. (I volunteer at a hospital and have seen this first hand). So while doctors cure the patients, nurses are the ones who actually take care of them.

That being said, it allows nurses greater flexibility when dealing with patients, Of course, in a medical sense, they are controlled by medical professionals, in terms of following medical directions (i.e. giving a specific dosage to a patient, ordering out some test etc, taking blood.) But that is understandable, as nurses aren't legally qualified take the curing aspect into their own hands.

Of course, my knowledge of nurses is based slightly off my volunteering experience, but mostly off of the tv show Scrubs, so I wouldn't cite this as valid research.

It totally depends on the doctor. I worked as a medical professional for 40 yrs. Some doctors, as any other employers, think that if you give them a " hammer", everything that they see is a "nail". But many doctors realize that nurses and others working with/for them are human and valuable and treat them with respect.
In my way of thinking, the worst enemy of us all is the government and all of the regulations. When I left practicing in medical field to go into another area of it, I spent more time filling out reports than I did with my actual work. Some regulation is necessary but too much is bad for profession as well as patients.

yes,yes.yes. i am not an RN but my fiance is , i have worked in the healthcare field for many years, i have encountered many Dr's who think they are god. i personally have had many run in's with Dr's because they think i should grovel at their feet? i work on the legal side of healthcare and when Dr's talk S--t to me i just let them know that by the time i get finished with them they will be lucky enough to find work in a correctional facility. i am not bragging but in my facility if there is anything that smells wrong in a Dr's notes or if i get a complaint, they know they have better come right or else period.

In the past 20 years nurses have moved away from the arena of ancillary health care personel (RT's, X-ray techs, Lab techs etc) and into the arena of health care professional. As a professional we are charged with defining our role, setting our own standard for eduaction and regulating our practice. Yes we do, need a physician's directive to perform our duties, however this mandate is easily covered by standard orders, and established protocols for given symptoms and common situations. As a medical professional a nurse must act as an advocate for the patient and challenge a medical directive that might have an adverse effect on the patient. S/He is well within her right to refuse to complete an order s/he feels inappropriate for the patient. There in lies the rub. In the past nurse's refusing to complete a physician's order, or a nurse questioning a physician's orders could have lost their job and/or have been reported to their governing board for insubordination. Alternatively in the past the nurse has blindly followed a doctors order resulting in extreme detriment to the patient and again lost his/her job and have been reported to ther governing board because s/he should have known better. Today, as nurses take on more responsibilities, and learn more highly technical skill, and forge a better relationship with the physician (a colleague instead of a subordinate) this is occurring less frequently.

I like to define Nursing as the point where the art of caring meets the science of medicine.